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Episode 107 · June 18, 2026 · 36:20

Orthodox Mystery

In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the “Holy Convergence” series by exploring the gifts of Eastern Orthodoxy.

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Show Notes

In this episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland continues the “Holy Convergence” series by exploring the gifts of Eastern Orthodoxy.

Derek begins by tracing the historical roots of Eastern Orthodoxy through the Great Schism of 1054, when the church in the Greek-speaking East and the Latin-speaking West formally divided after centuries of growing cultural, political, and theological separation. While Eastern Orthodoxy shares much in common with Catholic and Protestant traditions, it offers distinct emphases that Derek finds deeply enriching: mystery, participation in the divine life, Trinitarian theology, and the integration of worship and theology.

Drawing from the writings of Athanasius and Kallistos Ware, Derek reflects on the Orthodox understanding of salvation as healing and union with God rather than merely legal pardon. Central to Orthodox spirituality is theosis—the idea that humanity is invited to participate in the divine nature through union with Christ. This is captured in Athanasius’ famous statement: “God became human so that humanity might become god.”

The episode also explores the Orthodox emphasis on mystery—not as confusion or secrecy, but as an invitation into awe and worship. God is knowable, but never fully comprehensible. Theology is not merely intellectual study; it is participation in the life of God through prayer, worship, sacrament, and contemplation.

Derek concludes by introducing the Jesus Prayer—“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me”—as a simple but profound spiritual practice rooted in Orthodox spirituality, inviting listeners to embrace silence, humility, and wonder before the mystery of God.

Key Takeaways

Books Mentioned

Scriptures Mentioned

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Transcript

Welcome back.

To another episode of Peaceable and Kind, where we are sowing seeds of peace and kindness in a world of discord and despair.

I am your one-man host, Derek Vreeland, and before we get started, let me invite

You to subscribe to Peaceable and Kind wherever you are listening and leave a rating and a review that helps a lot.

I just checked on Apple and we have not received any.

New reviews.

So if you’re listening and you like this, go leave me a review on Apple and I will read your review in a future podcast episode.

But subscribe, rating, review, you know, do all the things that helps us.

On this episode, I’m going to continue to pursue this topic of

the holy convergence.

And so this is somewhat of a mini series here on the podcast where we are exploring

various streams of Christian tradition that I believe are coming together in a holy convergence.

And so for this episode, we’re going to talk about Eastern Orthodoxy and our pursuit.

of a holy convergence doesn’t actually begin with convergence at all.

It begins with a divergence.

The fracturing of the church, which originally took place in the 11th century, is where we start in thinking about traditions coming together.

We have to look historically at the church and and be honest with not only our successes and victories as the people of God.

but also some of the dark side of the church, some of the things that we lament.

And one of those things that I deeply lament

Is this original fracturing of the church in 1054 A.

D.

known as the Great Schism?

This is when the Orthodox Church in the East split from the Catholic Church in the West in an act of mutual excommunication.

So what we know as Eastern Orthodoxy and what we know as the Roman Catholic Church was a part of one institution.

For the first 1,000 years of the church’s history, there was, institutionally speaking, one church

In the words of the Nicene Creed, we say we believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic church.

We believe in one church

But there was in the 11th century the very first church split.

So to be able to talk about Eastern Orthodoxy, you do have to understand

This historical division.

And it’s far more complex than what I can describe in just one podcast episode.

But let me see if I can sum it up.

In words like this.

By the 11th century, Christianity in what we know today as Europe

had developed in two different cultural worlds.

Because the division between the Orthodox East and the Catholic West

Was more complex than simply a disagreement over theology, though it included that.

There was developing in again what we know as Europe,

modern-day Europe, two different cultures, the Latin-speaking West and the Greek-speaking East.

Now, the church in the West was centered in Rome, and it spread throughout what we know as Western Europe.

Worship was in Latin, and Christians there increasingly looked to the bishop of Rome, the Pope.

as the central authority of the church.

Now, the church in the East was centered in Constantinople in modern day Turkey.

and it was shaped by the Byzantine Empire, and they relied on Greek in their worship and in their theology.

And sadly, what began as one church

Built by Jesus and the Apostles ended up in two very distinct institutions

A part of the division was the issue of authority, because churches in the West were giving more and more authority to the Pope.

And the churches in the East rejected that.

Before the Great Schism, authority was shared among all of the bishops from Western churches and eastern churches.

decisions were made together.

They were made in what’s been called ecumenical councils, with representation from bishops from the East as well as from the West.

And there were seven of these ecumenical councils that took place over nearly 500 years.

From the very first ecumenical council, that was the first council of Nicaea in 325 A.

D.

, and then the second council of Nicaea in 787 A.

So in between the first and second council of Nicaea, there was a total of seven ecumenical councils where bishops came together.

From the East and the West, and they prayerfully discussed issues related to Christian worship and Christian doctrine, and it was shared.

Now, both Eastern and Western Christians do share a common belief

In the ancient Christian faith as defined by these ecumenical councils and summed up in the Nicene Creed

But centuries of political separation and cultural and language differences and disagreements over who’s really in charge.

slowly drove them apart until the Great Schism formalized a lasting division between these two churches, a division that still exists today.

So that’s the historical background on how Eastern Orthodoxy began to form a unique identity.

And so while Orthodox Christians they they share a lot in common with Catholic and Protestant traditions, they do have some.

Distinct points of emphasis that I find very helpful and at times challenging.

Orthodoxy, first and foremost, understands itself

as the continuation of the ancient apostolic church.

They don’t see themselves as simply a denomination or a tradition.

They see themselves as

The one church, the church that is most connected to Jesus and the apostles

So in Eastern Orthodoxy, tradition is extremely important, just as important as Scripture.

In fact, the holy tradition in Eastern Orthodoxy includes Scripture, but also the ecumenical councils, the writings of the church fathers.

the creeds, particularly the Nicene Creed, which was established in three twenty five A.

D.

, but then it was later expanded at the Council of Constantinople, which was the second ecumenical council.

So the Nicene Creed as we know it today is actually the Nicene Constantinople Creed, which is a mouthful.

So we just call it the Nicene Creed.

And they see the tradition that grows out of creeds and the writings of the early church fathers, and also the tradition of divine liturgy, that is the shape of their

their worship, all of this with Scripture are a part of the holy tradition.

One of the other uniquenesses about Eastern Orthodox is their view of salvation.

They emphasize that salvation was accomplished not just through the death and resurrection of Jesus, but by Jesus’ incarnation, his life

His crucifixion, his resurrection, and his ascension, that salvation for the world was accomplished by all that Jesus did.

And this salvation for Orthodox Christians is about healing and restoration.

It’s about participation in the very life of God.

So while Western churches, Catholic and Protestant, tend to view salvation in more legal terms, in more

law court terms.

The Eastern Church, Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy views salvation much more in terms of a sickness that requires healing

more than a pardon that r requires adjudication.

And in Eastern Orthodoxy, the goal of salvation is theosis.

sometimes called deification, which is the process of becoming completely in union with God

Eastern Orthodoxy would say that the goal of salvation is union with God.

The very famous uh statement from Athanasius.

Is that God became man so that man may become God.

Now, for Western Christians, and I consider myself a Western Christian,

For Western Christians, that sounds challenging.

God became man so that man may become God?

Like, how does that work?

Well, let’s look at Athanasius for just a moment.

I think if you’re going to read anything from the early church fathers, the top of my list would be On the Incarnation by Athanasius.

And Orthodox

Christians uh draw a lot from Athanasius, but I see Athanasius as one of the fathers for all of us.

So there’s a lot that we can learn.

But here is here is that quote from Athanasius in context and what he wrote in On the Incarnation.

He writes

He indeed assumed humanity that we might become God.

He manifested himself by means of a body

in order that we may perceive the mind of the unseen father.

He endured shame from men that we might inherit immortality

Now, those lines sum up a lot of what Athanasius teaches and what Eastern Orthodoxy emphasizes.

But first, the famous quote, what is written specifically is that he, Jesus, assumed humanity that we might become God.

Now, this doesn’t mean that human beings cease to be human, but rather in becoming God,

Orthodox Christians understand that is being in perfect union with God.

Athanasius emphasizes that

Not only did Jesus, the Son of God, become human that we might become God, but Jesus took on a body that we might understand the unseen Father.

This is what we see in John’s Gospel.

Jesus comes to show us what the Father is like.

And then Athanasius writes that Jesus in this body endured shame.

that we might inherit immortality.

Because for Athanasius and in Eastern Orthodoxy, the primary problem

for which Jesus brings salvation is mortality, is sin and death

So, immortality is not an inherent human trait, but it’s a gift from God

So in Orthodoxy, they think about salvation slightly different than we Western Christians do.

And Orthodox Christians are also deeply Trinitarian.

All Christians.

believe in the Trinity.

I mean, this is a core teaching of the Christian faith that God is one in God’s essence and nature, but this one God has been revealed in three distinct persons.

When I was working on my Doctor of Ministry degree at Asbury Theological Seminary over 20 years ago now, I was in a process of stepping away from the popular charismatic movement.

And I was trying to find a way to define, I don’t want to say my brand of Christianity, but how I identify as a Christian.

For so long I had considered myself a charismatic Christian, that I had defined myself by the distinctives of the Pentecostal Charismatic Tradition.

But I was entering into this holy convergence.

I was learning from other traditions, and I just didn’t see myself as specifically

a charismatic Christian.

I didn’t want that to be the way I explained my faith because my faith 20 years ago was becoming much more ecumenical.

And one of the things that happened to me in my doctoral studies is through two professors in particular, I had a rediscovery of the Trinity.

and fell in love with it.

In fact, as I wrote my doctoral dissertation, a Trinitarian definition of spiritual formation became something that became very alive for me.

And so I began to define myself as a Trinitarian Christian.

But then again, you know, all Christians believe in the Trinity, so I don’t know if that really helps any.

But for Eastern Orthodoxy, because of their reliance upon the early church fathers, they are deeply Trinitarian.

And while.

Catholic Christians tend to focus on the unity of God, the oneness of God.

Orthodox Christians focus on the plurality of God.

That is the relationship between the three persons in the Trinity.

And again, I’m not saying either of these are right or wrong or preferable.

God is one and God is three.

Both are true.

But I appreciate Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy, for emphasizing that when we think of God as Trinity, we don’t just think about the oneness.

but the relationship between the persons.

Now, the work of theology in Eastern Orthodoxy is seen in connection with prayer and worship.

So, learning about who God is and what God is doing, which, by the way, I think that’s a pretty good working definition for theology.

Learning about who God is and what God is doing.

For Eastern Christians, theology isn’t merely academic and intellectual.

It is experiential

So, where Western Christians tend to separate academic learning, intellectual pursuits, from worship

Eastern Orthodoxy brings those two together.

So for Orthodox Christians, worship forms theology more than theology forms

our systems of worship.

So within that worship life, Orthodoxy will talk about the divine liturgy.

But within that life of worship and prayer is at the foundation a very, very simple prayer, the Jesus prayer

This very short prayer has an important foundational place in Orthodox spirituality

And if you don’t know the prayer, it’s very simply, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.

And that’s it.

Ten words.

Now, some people will add a sinner to the end.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

But the way it has been taught to me from Orthodox teachers, it can be simplified to the 10 words, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.

You can even shrink it down further to Lord have mercy, carry a lazon in Greek.

But this short 10-word prayer, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, is maybe the most important thing about prayer I’ve learned from Eastern Orthodoxy.

Because in the Orthodox tradition, prayer is intended to move us from our minds to our hearts.

And so in the Orthodox tradition, they pray the Jesus prayer with repetition, which is a little bit different.

For more modern Christians, we don’t think about praying prayers in repetition, but if you do so with great intentionality,

Which is the way the Orthodox teach it.

It has a way of bringing peace and and calm to your soul

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.

It’s a prayer I pray all throughout the day, and I experience the peace that comes with learning and praying that prayer.

But what I find most helpful in Eastern Orthodoxy that really adds to our holy convergence is the idea that God

Is mystery.

Hey friends, I want to pause this episode for just a moment to let you know that Resurrection, eight lessons on how God restores us, the third and final

Book in the God in the Neighborhood Bible study series is out now.

Go to the show notes for ordering information.

Orthodox Christianity puts way more emphasis on mystery than on

a comprehensive theological system that attempts to answer most or all of our questions about the Christian faith.

Now this challenges some Christians because they want to have an answer for everything.

But Orthodox Christians remind us that God, while knowable, is never fully comprehensible.

So in addition to Athanasius, the early church father, if you’re gonna read or listen to anyone from the Orthodox tradition, I would recommend reading or listening to Callistosware.

He has been one of the most respected Orthodox Christian theologians and writers in the modern era.

He he just passed away a few years ago, which I I really took that personally.

I I felt his his passing personally, though I never met

uh metropolitan where I had learned so much from him.

So let me introduce you to Callistosware.

He was born under the name Timothy Ware.

He was born in England in 1934, and he converted from Anglicanism, which is the Church of England.

to Eastern Orthodoxy while a student at Oxford.

He later became a monk and then a bishop in the Orthodox Church.

He took on the name Callistos.

This is common when people will convert to orthodoxy.

They will take on a different name

And he was eventually given the title Metropolitan, which is a title very similar to like an archbishop.

So Ware had a very high position

within the Orthodox Church.

He served for years as a professor of Orthodox Studies at Oxford

And he became widely known through many of his very influential books on the beauty and history and the spirituality of Eastern Orthodoxy.

And throughout his life and ministry, Ware was known for his wisdom, his humility, and his gracious spirit.

He had a desire to build bridges between Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant Christians.

And as I’ve listened to him lecture and preach sermons, you can find them on YouTube.

He also has a dry British wit and humor.

uh that I really, really appreciate.

But if you’ll if you’ll listen to him or read any of his books, you will get a sense of his spirit.

He loved the whole body of Christ.

And I think he would definitely be down with this holy convergence.

But his most celebrated and I think most important book is The Orthodox Way.

It was originally written in 1979, and then it was revised in 1995.

It’s still in print.

You can still get a copy.

And if you’re going to read anything.

From the Eastern Orthodox tradition, I highly recommend reading the Orthodox Way by Callistas Ware

He wrote this as a way to introduce Eastern Orthodoxy to a non-Orthodox audience

So is a way for us who are in the Western Church, for Catholics, for Protestants, for Evangelicals, Pentecostals.

For those of us outside of orthodoxy who love the historical roots of the Christian faith, this is the book for us.

And in the Orthodox way, the very first chapter, this is where Calistosware begins, the very first chapter is God as Mystery.

So there’s so much from this chapter.

I could just read the whole chapter to you so you could see the value of mystery.

in Eastern Orthodoxy, but let me just read to you this one line, just two sentences from chapter one, where writes

It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery

God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder

Let the mic drop with that one.

I remember reading the Orthodox way, I don’t remember how long it’s been, maybe 10, 12 years ago.

And I remember reading that line and stopping

You ever read a book sometimes and it just hits you so hard, you’re like, I can’t read anymore.

I want to stop and meditate on that

And I think this is a great picture of orthodox mystery.

This just one thought.

God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.

Mystery for Eastern Orthodox Christians is not a matter of God keeping secrets or hiding from us.

But mystery is an invitation for us to explore the depths of a God that we will never fully understand.

The point of mystery is not to keep us in the dark, but to bring us into the light.

The entire point of mystery

is that we would stand in awe.

Worship is not so much like learning and sitting in a classroom

Worship is about beholding God for who God is and how God has revealed the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit to us.

And for Orthodox Christians, within God’s mystery, there is also revelation.

Orthodox Christians recognize that God is revealing God’s self to us through Jesus, through Scripture, through sacrament and prayer, through the holy tradition.

And it’s interesting that orthodoxy invites us to live in a lot of tension.

They don’t want to smooth over tension, but they want us to live in it.

particularly in the tension between mystery, what we don’t know about God, and revelation, what we do know about God.

So one of the examples is the Holy Trinity.

Which is extremely important for Orthodox Christians.

And the Holy Trinity is a mystery.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the persons

Within this one God, who are revealing to us the nature of God, but it still remains a mystery how the three are one.

And Ware goes on to write in the Orthodox way, God is not just one, but one in three, because he is a communion of persons.

Who share in love with one another.

The circle of divine love, however, has not remained closed

And this is important for thinking about, reflecting, and meditating on the Trinity.

The Trinity is not a closed circle of love

God has opened God’s self to us and invites us in to participate in the life of God.

And the key here for orthodoxy is that as we live in the tension between mystery and revelation, between what we know and what we don’t know

We have been invited to participate.

The key word here is participation

One verse of scripture that I think really helps us to capture the spirit of orthodoxy here is 2 Peter 1.

which says, Thus he has given us through these many things his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust

and may become participants in the divine nature.

This is how

Orthodox Christians imagine the progression of the Christian life, that we grow in Christian maturity as we grow to become participants.

in the divine nature.

So we participate in the divine nature without ceasing to be human

So if you go back to Athanasius’ very famous statement, God became human that humanity might become God.

Jesus became human without ever ceasing to be God.

So we participate in the divine nature without ceasing to be human

We do not become God literally.

The goal is that we become fully connected to God.

And I think mystery is a great place for us to start in this holy convergence because it keeps us humble.

Think about Isaiah fifty-five, verses eight and nine.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth

so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

So we recognize that God is infinite and we are finite

There are simply things we will not understand, and that’s okay.

We don’t want to worship a God that we can completely understand.

That would make God less than God.

What causes such pursuit and joy in the Christian journey is there are there are still things for us to learn about who God is.

His thoughts are higher than our thoughts

Now again, that doesn’t mean that our intellectual pursuits are of no value.

Remember, Jesus invites us to love God with all of our minds.

When Jesus is saying, you know, this is what the great, greatest of the commandments are, that you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.

So all of our intellectual pursuits of learning, learning theology, learning church history, all of it is

Valuable.

Christians have nothing to fear from any intellectual pursuit as long as we start

By acknowledging God is a holy mystery and being okay with not understanding everything

In the last episode when I was introducing Orthodoxy, I talked about Romans chapter 11, but this is a is a very difficult chapter.

that the Apostle Paul ends with a doxology with a bit of praise.

This is what Paul writes in Romans eleven, uh, verses thirty-three through thirty-six, and I really think it sums up Orthodox mystery.

So Paul writes, O the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God, how unsearchable are his judgments, and how inscrutable his ways.

For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor, or who has given a gift to him to receive a gift in return

For from him and through him and to him are all things.

To him be the glory forever.

Amen.

What a great picture of Orthodox mystery because those verses connect theology with worship.

But I am wondering how you are processing all these things.

I mean, do you tend to really want all the answers?

Or are you comfortable with mystery?

Are you okay with this?

Or does this really challenge you?

Um think about this.

Where have you, or maybe when have you

experienced God in a way that you can’t explain.

Maybe it was on a retreat, maybe it was in a worship service, maybe it was in prayer.

Maybe it was walking in the woods.

But have you had a real encounter with God that you can’t explain?

What might it look like for you to open yourself up to mystery, to be a little less in control?

I think that this is what Orthodox mystery invites us to do.

So here is something specifically you can do.

And here, this is what I would encourage you to do.

In addition to reading good books, The Orthodox Way by Calistos Ware or Athanasius’s on the Incarnation, here’s something you can do.

Memorize the Jesus prayer.

Again, 10 words.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.

Once you got that memorized, take some time in quiet

Where you’re isolated and alone, and begin to pray that prayer slowly, thinking about each and every word as you pray it.

And then I want to challenge you to just sit in silence after praying that prayer.

Just sit in silence in the presence of God, not saying anything.

Not even thinking anything.

If your brain gets a little distracted, just say the Jesus prayer in your head.

But simply be in the presence of God.

Just sit in that holy mystery.

I think our Orthodox brothers and sisters would commend that to us.

Well, that’s all that we have for this episode.

I hope it has been an encouragement.

And a challenge to you to join us in this holy convergence.

But that’s it for this episode.

Thank you for joining me.

Go in peace and be kind.

This transcript was generated with AI and may contain errors.