Show Notes
Episode 78: Waiting for Jesus: A Conversation with Rich Villodas
In this special Advent episode of Peaceable and Kind, Derek Vreeland welcomes pastor and author Rich Villodas for a conversation about his new devotional book, Waiting for Jesus.
As we enter the season of Advent, Derek and Rich reflect on the countercultural practice of waiting, learning to slow down, be still, and become more attentive to the presence of God. Together they explore how spiritual practices like silence, reflection, and wonder shape our formation and deepen our life with Christ.
Conversation Highlights
The Practice of Silence: Why silence remains central to spiritual formation and how to begin when the quiet feels uncomfortable.
Four Movements of Advent: Waiting, peacemaking, rejoicing, and beholding. These themes help us slow down and prepare for Christmas.
Guides Along the Way: Wisdom from Henri Nouwen, Barbara Brown Taylor, Bonhoeffer, Hauerwas, Willard, and Eugene Peterson on the joy that comes through obedience.
The Tyranny of the Urgent: How individuals and congregations can recover rhythms of waiting in a culture of hurry and distraction.
Hope in Jesus: Rich hopes readers will walk away from reading Waiting for Jesus with a renewed hope in Jesus to come and set right a world gone wrong.
Key Takeaways
Advent is not about frantic preparation but faithful waiting.
Silence and stillness are not empty—they make space for God’s presence.
Joy is not a requirement for discipleship; it’s the fruit of obedience.
Practicing attentiveness helps us resist distraction and rediscover wonder.
Books mentioned in this episode:
Waiting for Jesus by Rich Villodas
A Long Obedience in the Same Direction by Eugene Peterson
The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas
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Transcript
Narrator: Welcome back to another episode of Peaceable and Kind. I’m your host, Derek Vreeland, and I hope you are having a good day today. It is Thanksgiving here in the US, and we’re getting ready for the season of Of Advent. And so I have something special for you today. But before we jump into today’s conversation, let me invite you to Leave a rating, review, subscribe, do all the things. And I know you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation. And so when you get to the end of this podcast, I’d invite you to share it with someone who might find it encouraging. Been looking forward to this conversation for a while. My guest today is the one and only Rich Velodis. Rich is the Brooklyn-born lead pastor of New Life Fellowship, a large multiracial church with more than 75 countries. Represented in Queens, New York. Rich is the author of a number of books, including The Deeply Formed Life. Good and beautiful and kind, which by the way, I’m glad he went with that title, against my advice. The Narrow Path. I led a group through the Narrow Path here recently, a book on the Sermon on the Mount And we have a new book to talk about today. Waiting for Jesus, an Advent Invitation to Prayer and Renewal. Rich and his wife Rosie have two beautiful kids. They live in Long Island. He is a full-time fan of all the New York teams. Well, not all the New York teams. But if I remember correctly, the Mets, the Knickerbockers, which are making a bit of a comeback, and the Jets. Sorry about that, Rich. I’m trying to also make Rich a part-time cheese fan. We’ll see if that works. That’s it for the intro. Rich, welcome to Peaceable and Kind.
Derek Vreeland: Derek, it’s so good to be with you again. I think I am a Chiefs fan on some level because after losing, can I give you a quick stat about the New York Jets, Derek? Is that all right Please. The Jets, in terms of the four major sports, basketball, football, baseball, hockey in the United States, the Jets have the longest streak of not making the playoffs. Oh Isn’t that painful?
Narrator: That’s awful. Well, it gives you an opportunity to be formed and suffering. Because, you know, as a Chiefs fan, before Mahomes, we went 20 years without a playoff win, 50 years without a Super Bowl win, and it was decades of suffering. So I feel for you, brother.
Derek Vreeland: But do you remember uh let’s be honest, do you r really remember the suffering? You’ve had so win after wind after win. H have the wins just erased that s pain or do you still uh you don’t r really remember that, do you?
Narrator: Well, uh the Chiefs this season um faced Marcus Mariota, he was the backup for the Commanders And when he was with the Titans, he beat the Chiefs in the playoffs by passing the ball to himself. He had a goal line pass, batted up, back to him. And my brother, who’s a Titans fan, loves to send me that clip. So I want to say yes, but you know those those wounds, they they they can kind of fester. And so, but yeah, you know, I let my sports team bring me joy, so I go to the highest highs, but The Chiefs have lost two Super Bowls in addition to winning three. And when they lose a Super Bowl, uh within thirty minutes I’m reading a book and moving on with my life. You know what I’m saying? I want sports to bring me joy and not bring me down. Well done. Well done. Rich, it’s great to see you and to be with you. And congratulations on the new book. Um, want to talk a little bit uh about this new book, an Advent uh devotional book. So you’ve written it for the season of Advent for people to have daily readings. Let’s talk a little bit about the structure. So for people who haven’t gotten their hands on this book yet, talk to us a little bit about the structure. Because this is a devotional not just for things to read every day, but there’s also practices in there. So talk to us about the daily structure. of this uh devotional.
Derek Vreeland: Yeah, well well you know, this book emerged out of me trying to help our congregation a number of years ago. uh stay connected to Jesus in a season where consumerism and commercialism really dominates our world. And so structure wise, you know, there’s four typical words or movements in advent that typically frame the season marked by hope and peace and joy and love. And so I wanted to riff a little bit off of that. And so um, first of all, thematically it’s peacemaking, rejoicing, and beholding. But the structure is, I mean, I wanted to offer some kind of theological reflection, a biblical reflection on a passage. But I want to lead people into stillness. And so every day there’s an opportunity for some form of biblical reflection. some stillness, uh, and some prayer. And this is what I’ve discovered over the years, especially in 2020 when the pandemic hit. I started leading these midday prayers for folks who ever wanted to join. First our congregation and then anyone else on Instagram who wanted to join for 15 minutes at noon. And I discovered after doing it for about four or five months that a lot of people don’t know how to pray. They don’t know what to do in that moment of 10 minutes, 15 minutes. And so this serves as a guide, not just to read something, but hopefully to get you to Jesus.
Narrator: And that happens in those contemplative moments of silence, of of stillness. And uh I remember you telling me that uh during the pandemic uh when we were all homebound, you and your family of four, you were in a in a pretty tight apartment. And uh was like
Derek Vreeland: Eight hundred square feet that’s that way in Queens.
Narrator: That’s right.
Derek Vreeland: Eight hundred square feet and we’ve not paid eight hundred dollars a month, I want to tell you that. That was not
Narrator: But I I can only imagine the challenges of finding moments of stillness and silence. Yeah um in in in in the New York area in such a busy, busy place. But you do give instructions here. Why is silence and stillness such an important practice during the season of Advent?
Derek Vreeland: I mean, first I I think we’re habituated in in the world that we’re in right now around partial attention. And so, you know, sociologists would use that line of we live in a continuous state of partial attention. Silence, I think, is about attentiveness. So it’s not so much about not saying anything. And our world typically only has a category for silence whenever someone passes away. All right, before the game, we’re gonna have a moment of silence. But silence is about not simply not offering words, but uh paying close attention to the presence of God. Uh and so in for me, in a world that’s marked by distraction, hurriedness, I I live in the city that never sleeps. So if we can do it here, we can do it anywhere.
Narrator: Yeah.
Derek Vreeland: It’s really about attentiveness. But beyond that, I also think That there is something beautiful about being able to hold silence with God like we do with any person whom we love. There’s a weightiness of presence when we’re able to just be with one another without the need for words. Words are a gift. But words are not always needed to convey presence. And I think that’s often what’s missing in many of our Pentecostal evangelical Christian traditions, verbosity, lots of words as a way of getting in the way of just presence. And uh so I think that’s that’s a great gift of silence and and stillness.
Narrator: And it’s such a challenge whether you live in a big metropolitan area or if you live in a rural area, you know, because we we are so connected digitally. Like I know retired people that live here in northwest Missouri in more rural areas and they just keep cable news on in their house all day because they want to fill the void with just noise. And so yeah, I kind of want to uh continue this conversation about stillness and silence because I know a lot of people struggle with it. And I agree with you. I think it’s one of the missing spiritual disciplines and can freak people out when they first start practicing it. We teach a form of contemplative prayer, so we’ve we’ve helped people with that. But what would be some of your pastoral advice to people who are trying to practice silence, but they find their their mind wandering. What would be your advice to them?
Derek Vreeland: Yeah, be before I get in terms of like tactics, I think it’s important just to normalize certain things. Like there’s nothing wrong with you when your mind gets distracted. I th I used to think that to be distracted in prayer meant that I was a bad Christian. Turns out it means I’m a human being. That all of us get distracted one way or another. And so the more that we can normalize certain aspects of formation, silence, prayer, the easier we can get on with our lives and not obsess and ruminate over not getting it done right. What do you mean right? And so for me I would just say What uh normalize it. And then there’s this line by Thomas Keating who said, you know, uh, you know, if your mind gets distracted a thousand times in ten minutes of prayer, it’s a thousand opportunities to come back to Jesus. And so Oh, God is not looking at you like you know, get it together here. God is just waiting for us. And so getting that out of the way When it comes to now like practice and like how can I actually strengthen this muscle, here’s what I would say. You don’t have to start really big, like anything in life. I think I have my phone and I’ll usually I usually have like an app or I just did the timer. And sometimes start with one minute. Start with but let that one minute Be about attentiveness. Lord, I want to be attentive to you right now. You’re here. I’m going to set my timer for one minute. And what I’ve typically do to just anchor that time is I might have within like the centering prayer tradition or contemplative prayer tradition have a phrase to just bring me back to the center so that when my mind thinks about how terrible the New York Jets are and will we ever win again. Jesus, here I am.
Narrator: There you go.
Derek Vreeland: Which which I need a lot of Jesus here I am when I start thinking about my teams. But I think start with one, and I think here’s what happens. I think when we open ourselves up to the Spirit in this way, the Spirit begins to create greater hunger. For you know what? I think I need two minutes right now. Well you know what my mind is so scattered I think I need five And so let the spirit do the spirit’s work, but you got to start somewhere. So I would just say get your phone, put a timer on for one minute, and then next thing you know, you’ll start feeling a greater desire to do more.
Narrator: When I was first practicing silence, uh, it was probably 12, 13 years ago, um, it was so difficult for me. I actually recall Dallas Willard in a lecture saying When you practice silence and solitude, the first thing you realize is you have a soul. And I remember those first moments of trying to be silent in God’s presence Anxious thoughts, regrets from the past, like painful memories, which is float to the surface. And what I started doing is um i because I don’t journal. I’m not really a journaler. But when I when I practice silence, especially extended times of silence, I bring my notebook. And so if any thought, you know, whether it’s an anxious thought or a painful memory, I just jot it down. And for me, if I jot that down, then my brain doesn’t have to keep it. Yeah. Um and that that’s that’s really that’s really freed me up. Last fall, mm, I for the first time went to we have a local adoration chapel. Which is a Roman Catholic uh devotional chapel where the blessed host is present.
Rich Villodas: And in the Catholic tradition, you adore the host.
Narrator: and not Roman Catholic, uh don’t share their view of transubstantiation, but it was a holy place. And I went with because I’m a good evangelical with my Bible and my notebook because I said, I’m gonna give this like twenty minutes. And and I’m sure I’m gonna have to start writing. And I sat there uh for just over an hour and it was uh it was a transformative experience. But Let’s get back to your devotional. So I do appreciate though that in the devotionals not just things to read, but there are encouragements that, yeah, we’re reading, but we’re also attending to the presence of God through through stillness and silence. Um I love all of the the guides that you bring and incorporate into these daily devotionals. I mean it’s all it’s all the grace, Henry Nowen Barbara Brown Taylor, Bonhoeffer, Hower Wass, the aforementioned Dallas Willard. But I absolutely love the quote from Eugene Peterson. uh that’s in day 13. It’s from A Long Obedience in the Same Direction, which I read years ago. And I love when people are quoting, you know, my favorites like Peterson. Yeah. And I actually went back and reread the chapter that quotes in. I I’d forgotten about it. But this is about joy. So you have worked with the classic themes of uh joy and peace, hope and and love, although you structure it a little bit different So you have this section of rejoicing. And this is day 13 on increasing your joy. And here’s what you quote from Peterson. Peterson writing, joy is not a requirement of Christian discipleship. It is a consequence. It is not what we have to acquire in order to experience life in Christ. It is what comes to us when we are walking the way of faith and obedience. And once again, Eugene the wise. There it is. Yeah, so yeah, joy, because I think some Christians, they’re like, I don’t feel it today. Like, I don’t want to pray. I don’t even go to church. I’m not feeling it because there’s just this thought that, oh, you have to go into these spiritual practices with all this like energy and excitement. Peterson said, no, it’s the That’s the outcome. That’s the result. That we walk away with joy. What’s the Holy Spirit doing to stir joy within us when we’re practicing various spiritual practices? I gotta jump into this podcast episode to let you know I have a new book that’s out. Incarnation. Eight lessons on how God meets us is available now. Go order it. Link is in the show notes.
Derek Vreeland: What I love about Peterson’s quote is the emphasis is obviously super switched because Joy is typically we think something we work up, something we manipulate, something we have to make happen. And that’s usually how happiness is kind of defined in our culture. If we’re going to be happy, we have to figure out a way to make it happen. And you know, Jesus has these words in John 15, My joy I give you. That’s what, I mean, that’s Jesus’ words, my joy, which emerges out of Jesus saying, Abide in me and I in you. And so, what I think the Holy Spirit is doing right now is not just trying to give a generic kind of joy, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Jesus, is trying to infuse our lives with His joy. And his joy is, you know, it’s not simply a kind of cheery happiness. There is a settledness in our hearts. That God is with us, that God is for us, that all things will be well. And because of that, I don’t have to live with great despair. I don’t have to live with a sense of hopelessness. I can live in a way that’s actually very surprising and light. When I think about joy, I think there’s a lightness that we’re carrying in our lives. uh as opposed to a heaviness of being weighed down. Joy is, think about children carrying joy. There’s a lightness to their lives. And I think the Spirit of God, that’s the joy Jesus wants to give us. But it’s a consequence. It’s it’s not something we’re going to create on our own. It happens as we remain connected to Jesus. And that’s the hard part for me, Derek, is like When is the joy gonna come? I want to know when is the joy gonna come? How is it gonna come is this gonna happen in the next five? I’m giving you five minutes now, Jesus. I hope that by minute five, joy is gonna visit me. Which is why, you know, it was in it, Lewis, you know, surprised by joy around joy has a way of surprising us when we least expect it. And uh but I I think but it’s a consequence of our abiding with Christ.
Narrator: Yeah, and it’s it’s something the spirit does. We don’t work it up because I think we can structure things that produce joy, but I see that in the Christian tradition as participating. with the spirit’s work to infuse and produce joy within us, which I think is a needed message today because we’re such an entertainment addicted culture. And uh we’re always finding and looking for new ways, but in the Christian tradition, the the joy comes from from the Lord. In the rule of Saint Benedict, there is a r one of the rules. Is that the monks in the Benedictine tradition are not to be given to boisterous laughter. And when I first read that, I thought, well, that’s boring. Like ‘cause I, you know, I’m here for good theology and the jokes. Like I enjoy Laughter and and comedians and all that kind of stuff. Uh and so I first read it as a little off-putting, but then I realized, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Because That kind of surface level happiness is not what we’re after here, but an abiding joy that comes from the Spirit. So once again, uh Saint Benedict with some great wisdom there.
Derek Vreeland: And I’ll tell you what, I’ve been to Benedictine monasteries in the Spencer, Massachusetts, where I’ve gone almost every year. And I here’s what I there’s not a lot of boisterous laughter there, I’ll tell you. At the same time, because I’ve gotten to know a lot of these monks here There is great joy. Oh yeah. And so I love that quote.
Narrator: Yeah. No, we have a Benedictine monastery about forty-five minutes away, and Brother Cyprian, for years and years and years, was the guest master. So when we would take people from the church on these retreats, we would often begin with a tour of this beautiful basilica. led by brother Cyprian. And he’s from New Jersey, so he’s from like your part of the world. And he kind of had that little New Jersey attitude, a real kind of a dry wit and sarcasm. And uh that dude was so funny because one one of the times at our retreat, my job was to take people from like guest check-in to the tour if they arrived late. And he’d be in there giving his little spiel and then I walk in to this beautiful basilica while he’s talking and and and the first time I did that, he just looked at me and stared. He’s like, all right, come on in. And I realized, oh no, this is a bit. And so then I’d like bust in the basilica doors, brother Cyprian, another and he would make jokes. And no, there’s great joy um in the Benedictine tradition. Yeah. But it’s it’s born of the Holy Spirit.
Derek Vreeland: And Brother Cyprian is an amazing name, by the way, isn’t it?
Narrator: Oh, yeah. He was actually in s in St. Joe. He came by Word of Life Church. He was coming in town for a doctor’s visit. And I was in the building and he came by to see us because were his friends and yeah, I appreciate the the Benedictine tradition. But back to the the topic of joy. Yeah. So where our joy comes from So we uh we can structure things that in such a way that we are open to the work of the spirit for joy, and I think Advent does that. For me what I love about the season of Advent and that starts on Sunday, so we’re about ready to jump into it, is it it lets me put the brakes on rushing to Christmas joy. Yes. And so joy has been, at least in modern times, a tradition of Advent. But I like to go a little bit more old school with Advent. And so for me personally, Advent is more drawing back. It’s more reflective. It’s more of a reminding myself why we need a savior to come. So Advent in that sense is a little bit like Lent. Not exactly. Because in at our house, man, we put up Christmas decorations before Thanksgiving. Like we’ll we’re here for all that. But Advent just lets me slow down a little bit so that when Christmas comes and the celebration of the incarnation, that’s where our joy comes from. It comes from the 12-day Christmas celebration. And so I love the wisdom of the church calendar there.
Derek Vreeland: And here’s what I would also add to that about joy, because you know, Advent is it’s it’s oriented around waiting, we’re longing, hunger, we’re waiting for God to come. Yeah. Yes. Uh and so on some level that Third Sunday in Advent where people light the pink candle in the in churches and all that, a little brighter than the others. Right. The question for me is if we are waiting and longing and thirsting for God to come. Does it feel like joy is premature? Is it is joy premature in Advent? And here’s what I would say to that. In our longing, there’s lots of pain. In our longing, there’s disorientation. But it seems that here’s the wisdom, I think, in the church calendar in this year. Good theology doesn’t allow us to compartmentalize joy from pain. In fact, our ability to enter into our longing, our pain, our disappointment actually creates the conditions for true joy
Narrator: There you go.
Derek Vreeland: And so when we avoid our own pain personally or the world, we can’t really enter into a world of rejoicing. And I think that’s That’s the gift of the Advent that is fulfilled in Christmas. And so now it’s truly joy to the world because uh we’ve been able to hold our longings and hunger before a God who’s coming.
Narrator: So good. Yeah, there’s such wisdom in the liturgical calendar because even like during the season of Lent, which is a time for fasting, for contrition, for repentance, we always recognize that every Sunday is a mini celebration of the resurrection. So even in our Linton journey, we get to break that Linton fast on Sunday because it’s a celebration of the resurrection. Yeah, waiting and that building in anticipation, which is why I think, and that’s you know the title of your your devotional, waiting for Jesus, it’s that waiting during the season of Advent. And so books like this help people do just that. Because, you know, December will get busy with Christmas parties and Christmas. planning and Christmas, you know, dinners and Christmas cards and and all the preparation for for the holiday. But I can imagine people uh sitting down with your book with a cup of coffee in the morning and sort of saying, okay, Rich is going to help me slow down and and and wait and to build that anticipation. What would you advice for the super busy I mean we’re all busy but I’m always thinking of like stay-at-home moms with young kids. Because how do you ever have a moment? Like my daughter-in-law has uh our we have two grandkids and they’re three and one like I think about her. How does she ever have a moment to slow down and wait? So what would you to say to a person in your congregation that’s just so busy? How do you slow down and wait during Advent?
Derek Vreeland: You know, on one level, um, my mind goes to a conversation I had in seminary with an episcopal Professor, I my that my seminary was a Christian and missionary alliance seminary, but we had all kinds of traditions represented from in the seminary, which was beautiful. Guy by the name of um Jeffrey Mackey. And he talked about the difference between consistency and congruence. Consistency and congruence. And I think There are lots of folks who put a lot of pressure on themselves to do the same thing at the same time every day, consistency. And when that doesn’t happen, something’s wrong with my life. And here’s what I recognize. Life is complicated. Life gets full. We get tired. I would rather someone say, you know what, I want to be fully attentive to Christ as I wait. intentionally so three to four days a week and and be there as opposed to in a perfunctory kind of a way every day do it. And so I would say um Let’s wait on Jesus together. Let’s let’s but let’s take the pressure off in terms of I have to do it right. I know what it’s like to have small children. And it’s like Okay, when I when I put them down for a nap, then I’ll pray. I’m so exhausted after putting them down for a nap. I’m like, I’m gonna pray in my dreams. Lord, hear oh Lord, hear my prayer as I’m sleeping.
Narrator: Yeah
Derek Vreeland: And so I think let’s get the pressure off of us, but back to the monastery though, I think what helps us to wait often is that we have people to wait with. There you go. And so I think the larger question is, what might it look like to, and this might be Sundays, what might it look like apart from Sundays? to wait with others.
Rich Villodas: Mm-hmm.
Derek Vreeland: You know, is there a a 20-minute Zoom meeting that you want to do with some friends to say, you know what, for For uh a few days during the week. Let’s let’s jump on for 10 minutes and just pray with one another, or whatever it might be. It’s a lot easier to wait. with others than in isolation. And so get the pressure off of us in terms of doing consistently, congruence is the issue, and you might need a community around that.
Narrator: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Take take the pressure off. Like so many people have come out of legalistic, rule based, fear based guilt-based religious communities. And uh, you know, we’re here to say Jesus sets you free of that. Amen. It’s the beauty of the spiritual practices, and I love the word habituation. The beauty of the spiritual practices is they do form our loves, they form our desires. And so when you’re beginning to practice something new, and again, I love that advent. It’s it’s marked by four weeks, so it’s it’s 28 days. When you start to do something new, a new habit, it feels difficult and it’s not perfect. And that’s all normal. You may not get anything out of it. That’s normal. Right. But the the the showing up. and produces a desire within us. So that if you go through the season of Advent and you’re like, wow, I I I went through all of these daily devotionals and then you miss three or four days. I think what people will find out is that their soul, their heart tends to long for that again. That’s right. And that is what will get you through. So set yourself free, right? Let yourself off the hook. Like you don’t have to do this every day. There’s no guilt in this. Well listen, as we wrap up, Rich, what’s one takeaway? Uh, what do you what’s one thing you hope people will take away from working through Waiting for Jesus?
Derek Vreeland: on one level, there’s the practices, there’s the prayers. For me, I would want to go a little higher than that. And by that I mean To say that we’re waiting for Jesus is on one level we reenact his coming or reimagine his coming every year. Christ is born. And we say yes to that. But there’s another facet to the Advent season and the Christmas season where we’re waiting for God to make all things new. And so I’d say number one, to wait for Jesus is a recognition that there’s still something not right with the world. And that the one who’s really going to put things to rights is Jesus. And so my hope is that there would be a shift in our thinking. Who is the one who’s really going to renew this world? It’s not going to come because someone is voted into office. It’s not going to come because uh something has changed in our society. It’s it’s gonna come because God is breaking in into our world. And that’s where our ultimate hope is going to be found. And so there’s deeper longing that we all have, and the one who’s going to really renew all things is Jesus. And that’s my hope. That these readings would bring us to that particular place, not simply I checked off another thing on my devotional uh during Christmas or Advent. It’s no, no, no. The one who’s really going to make it happen is Jesus. So Lord, we wait on you.
Narrator: Amen. I love it. Thanks so much, Rich. I love you. Appreciate you. Your books, your your ministry have influenced me. Where can people find you online if they want to connect or follow you? What’s the best place to follow you?
Derek Vreeland: Yeah, if you want to follow some things that I’ve written, you can go to RichVelotus. com. And then I’m usually lamenting my sports teams or talking a little theology. or spiritual formation on like Instagram or X or Threads at Rich Velotis, all the same uh handle there. So yeah, we’d love to connect with you there.
Narrator: All right, so go follow Rich on uh threads, Instagram, on the social media platform formerly known as Twitter, and go get a copy. of waiting for Jesus so you can get started the first seven day of Advent working through this. That’s all that we have for today. Thank you for joining us. Go in peace and be kind.
This transcript was generated with AI and may contain errors.